Feb 13, 2024
In this episode, host Craig Dalton interviews Stefan Barth, author of the book "Ultra Cycling and Bikepacking: All You Need to Know." Stefan shares his journey into ultra cycling and bikepacking, discussing the challenges and unique aspects of these long-distance events. He highlights the importance of sleep, nutrition, and positioning in preparing for and competing in ultra cycling races. Stefan also emphasizes the need for a strong physical foundation and the role of mindset in overcoming obstacles during these demanding events.
Ultra Cycling and Bike Packing. All you need to know (Amazon link)
ISBN: 978-3-910501-03-4
Episode Sponsor: Pillar Performance (use code: CRAIG for 15% off)
Join The Ridership
Stefan Barth is an author and coach specializing in ultra cycling and bikepacking. Based in Frankfurt, Germany, Stefan has a passion for long-distance cycling events and has participated in races such as the Race Across America and the Transcontinental. With a background in medical fitness coaching, Stefan combines his knowledge of training, nutrition, and mindset to help athletes prepare for and succeed in ultra cycling events.
In this episode, host Craig Dalton interviews Stefan Barth, author of the book "Ultra Cycling and Bikepacking: All You Need to Know." Stefan shares his journey into ultra cycling and bikepacking, discussing the challenges and unique aspects of these long-distance events. He highlights the importance of sleep, nutrition, and positioning in preparing for and competing in ultra cycling races. Stefan also emphasizes the need for a strong physical foundation and the role of mindset in overcoming obstacles during these demanding events.
Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos:
[TRANSCRIPT]
**** - (): .
[00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the
gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel
cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event
organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport
**** - (): I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who
discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes
you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down,
unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel
cyclist.
**** - (): This week on the podcast, I've got the great pleasure of
welcoming author and coach Stefan Barth. He's the author of a book
called ultra cycling and bike packing. All you need to know that
was recently translated from German to English. It's a very deep
technical book. About ultra cycling and these long distance events.
Highlighting how different the training. Preparation and otherwise
competing successfully the events. Needs to occur.
**** - (): Stefan noted that in his preparation for ultrasonic.
Recycling events. While he could cobble together a number of
resources, podcasts, videos, et cetera. There was no singular
location. That highlighted insights and philosophies and training
methodologies. That he could find. So he sat on a journey to create
the, this book. They look forward to jumping into the conversation
with Stefan.
**** - (): Okay. Before we jump in, I do need to thank pillar
performance for their support of this episode. Pillars of sports,
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C R a I G for 15% off all first-time purchases. Would that behind
us, let's jump right in to my conversation with Stefan.
[00:03:22] - (): Stefan Barth: Stephane, welcome to the show.
Hi, Greg.
[00:03:25] - (): Craig Dalton: I'm excited to get you, to
know you a little bit better and learn more about the book you
wrote Ultra Cycling and Bikepacking, All You Need to Know. As we
were talking about offline, I think it's a very interesting journey
where many of us honor are on as cyclists from starting to do
gravel events, starting to do longer gravel events, getting
interested in bikepacking.
**** - (): And I think as the sports evolve and the science of
training evolves, it's super interesting to have a discussion with
someone like you has thought a lot about. Ultra cycling, how to
train for it. You've thought so much about it that you've written a
book
[00:04:03] - (): Stefan Barth: about it. Yeah. And glad that
it got translated into English.
**** - (): So more and more people are able to read it now. So I'm
really looking forward to our chat.
[00:04:15] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's so maybe that's a
good point to let's, let's set the stage where you located and
maybe follow that on by where did you grow up and how did you
discover cycling in the
[00:04:25] - (): Stefan Barth: first place? Okay. Yes, I'm
from, from Germany and I'm located in Frankfurt here.
**** - (): And yeah, so the book is about ultra cycling and bike
packing. And that actually is where I started my cycling career. So
it was like always. I was, I was driven to the, to the longer,
longer events. And even when I started cycling as a teenager, it
was always, okay, I want to go the, for the 100 kilometers to the
town that is a little bit farther away.
**** - (): Uh, most of my friends, they were not able to reach
these towns even by the bus. And I was feeling very, very cool just
to be able to go there by bike. And somehow this, this got my
addiction to long distance cycling starting and yeah, it developed
from that. So. I'm probably a young starter, so I think it was like
with 14 years that I did my first free day ride and yeah, then it
escalated quickly.
[00:05:29] - (): Craig Dalton: And did you ever get drawn
into kind of more traditional bike racing or was touring and long
distance riding always your true love? Yeah, only
[00:05:38] - (): Stefan Barth: for a short time. I had like a
triathlon time. So I had a couple of years when I was more doing
Ironman distance triathlon races. And that was the time when I got
more professional in cycling as well, because I got more, yeah, I
focused more on competitive cycling.
**** - (): And during that time I did a couple of criterium races,
but it never really catched me, so it's not, yeah, it was not to my
taste to, to ride in a, in a bunch and to always, uh, have this
fear of, of, of a crash and I'm not the, the guy made for speed,
but rather for, for long stretches and to, to feel like the, the
exhaustion creep into your legs.
**** - (): But. Because of the duration and not because of the
intensity.
[00:06:29] - (): Craig Dalton: Got it. And where did your
sort of professional life and, uh, and cycling start to
intersect?
[00:06:37] - (): Stefan Barth: A couple of years ago, it was
like really the time when I, when I did those Ironman distance
races that was like the beginning of putting more thought into how
should I prepare my body, how should I prepare my mind what do I
need to do with nutrition to get better on those races and yeah,
that's probably where I started to think, okay, I could or this is
my passion and I, Will, well, I want to do something in my
professional career in this area in the long term, and soon
afterwards I started to go part-time as a coach.
**** - (): And I did like, in Germany it's called medical fitness
coaching. So I studied in an area where you put a lot of weight
into how to. coach athletes, but at the same time, how to do rehab
and prehab. Yes. And this I did some years in part time and I had a
full time job in the finance sector.
**** - (): And when I published the book or the German edition of
the book, ultra cycling and bike packing at that time. I had to
make a decision because both careers would have been, one career
would compromise the other one. And then I decided, or it was
pretty easy for me actually to decide that I want to, to have a job
that is my passion at the same time.
**** - (): And so I decided to go all in, in coaching and writing
about coaching.
[00:08:02] - (): Craig Dalton: That's super interesting. And
it makes sense given some of the very technical elements of the
book. Around physiology that you lean into that we can talk a
little bit about later. And it also makes sense that Ironman
journey, which you and I share, I feel like as athletes, Ironman,
it's one of those disciplines that highlights your deficiency of
preparation very quickly, both physically nutrition and all kinds
of things.
**** - (): So I'm curious, you know, building off upon that, when
did you start getting drawn into the more ultra distance cycling
events?
[00:08:40] - (): Stefan Barth: Soon, soon after my first
Ironman actually. And at that time I did like big bike packing
trips as like base my training for Ironmans as well. So I, I always
try to have one vacation in summer.
**** - (): And be like three or four weeks with my bicycle and ride
as many miles as possible to build a strong or a strong foundation
for the Ironman training. And during that time, I noticed that
there's a crazy race in America called the Race Across America. I
think it was some time about 2013, probably, something like
that.
**** - (): When I heard the first time about this race across
America and that there's an Austrian guy called Christoph Strasser,
who's not living too far away from, from here who is really good at
it. And I was like, okay, he's crossing the whole continent in 10
days. This is crazy. And that's what I want to do.
**** - (): And yeah, that's, that's how I. Got drawn into this long
distance cycling. And I think that actually kicked off here in
Europe, quite a, uh, fascination for this sport in general,
especially in Germany and Austria. And there popped up a little
more and more 24 hour cycling events. And that was the beginning
for me.
**** - (): Then I started to, uh, to participate at these 24 hour
events and yeah, just looked how, how much can I do or how long can
I go in 24 hours? And then this evolved into supported races. So I
did. A couple of races, ultra cycling races where I had my own
support crew which is quite expensive and at the same time, more
and more bike pack, bike packing events popped up here in Europe,
like transcontinental and more and more smaller ones.
**** - (): And yeah, then I switched.
[00:10:36] - (): Craig Dalton: You were talking about the
transcontinental and some of these other. Ultra endurance road
cycling events. How many days were those events taking?
[00:10:46] - (): Stefan Barth: Yeah, I think that the first,
when I, when I started the smaller ones were two or three day
rides. And my longest one was, uh, nine, nine days, one hour.
**** - (): So this is a bit more than three and a half thousand
kilometers. It's
[00:11:04] - (): Craig Dalton: always super interesting to me
when you kind of transcend that single day racing format to multi
day format, to just understand the mentality. And I know some of
this is included in the book, but I think it's great background
before we get there.
**** - (): How do you handle kind of sleep along the way
[00:11:22] - (): Stefan Barth: in those events? Yeah. It's,
it differs between like ultra cycling is not ultra cycling, but
it's important to make this this to distinguish between how long,
or is it a multi day race or is it just 24 hours? Because I think
in, in a 24 hours, uh, race, at least for me, there's no difficulty
and uh, no sleep at all.
**** - (): So if you're doing a 24 hour race. it's okay to have a
stop time about 15 to 20 minutes only. And in a 48 hour race, it's
still works for me without sleep, but just if you are practiced at
it and everything beyond 48 hours is where it gets really tough and
where I think you just have to sleep. probably can go with a
napping strategy.
**** - (): It's way more fun if you sleep. And that's something I
think that some people underestimate the first time just because
it's possible to push through doesn't mean it's fun. And to cut off
the sleeping time is a sure way to get rid of the fun. That's for
sure.
[00:12:32] - (): Craig Dalton: As you were, as you were
pursuing these new and different style races, were you able to find
the resources you needed to understand how to train and prepare for
them, or was it more trial and error along
[00:12:45] - (): Stefan Barth: the way?
**** - (): It was a lot trial and error and yes, there was, I think
nowadays it's easier 10, 10 years later, there's a lot of more
content on the internet and you have podcasts that go into
different topics of ultra cycling and you have bloggers that post a
lot but still there's not too much scientific background of it and
when I started, I tried a lot shit.
**** - (): By trial and error, and I also tried to find people
obviously who have done it before, uh, try to talk with them,
connect with them on social media, and at the events, use the time
to, to have a couple of words with them. But it was a very. Uh,
sometimes frustrating way because you have to invest a lot of time
and you could not be sure that you, yeah, you get a return on your
investment because yeah, then you, you tried something out, uh, for
example, nutrition and I had like one huge mistake I made.
**** - (): When I tried to copy the nutrition, nutrition strategy
of Christoph Strasser from his race cross America. And he had like
some, I don't know if it's sponsored product, but like some fluid
nutrition and he was always telling, okay, he drinks like 200
milliliters of this. Uh, fluid per hour and that works fine for him
and I was, okay, if it works for him, I should try it as well.
**** - (): And I did it during a race and this was probably really
one of my biggest mistakes because I totally underestimated that
he's. probably something like 40 pounds heavier than me because I'm
quite short and he puts in a lot of more power. And I totally
underestimated how this power and this body weight factor
correspond on your nutrition needs.
**** - (): And I drank way too much and I consumed way too much
energy which ended. in me at the roadside feeling very, very sick.
And yeah, I had to do a complete restart. So I, I did finish the
race, but after lying in the ditch for, for, I don't know, 30, 40
minutes I had to, to To build in a period drinking only water,
don't eating anything, and just have a complete reset for my body
and my mind, and then I could start again.
**** - (): But yeah, that's, that's the mistakes that I made on the
road. And that's what the book is about, that not everybody has to
lie in this ditch and make the same mistakes all over again.
[00:15:31] - (): Craig Dalton: You sort of alluded to this in
your answer there, but if we go back to sort of what inspired you
to write a book, I'm just curious how you would answer that
question.
[00:15:41] - (): Stefan Barth: Yeah, it's at the beginning I
was not planning on writing a book. So probably this is the most
important part because when I started it was more like, okay. I.
Okay. I had a lot of conversations and I have tried a lot of things
and I wanted to write it down for myself first. So it was, was not
planned to, to make a book out of it, but rather a compendium for
myself for future events.
**** - (): And also when I thought about starting a coaching
business, business, this was like a blueprint for my clients. And
then I started to talk to other athletes about what I had until
that moment, and they were really, really interested in this whole
topic and to have a compendium for how to best prepare for ultra
cycling events.
**** - (): And yeah, then I started thinking, okay, maybe I should
look up into more and more papers and maybe I should add some, some
new chapters to it. And at that time I started with the interview.
So the book incorporates a couple of. Of interviewees or a couple
of interviews I did with other athletes and I started with those
who are my friends, obviously.
**** - (): And we just sat at a table for, I think with Mati
Koester, I sat for almost eight hours and we talked the whole day
about what are topics that he's interested in. And then I used
these, yeah, guideline or these topics that we discussed that day
to go to other athletes, also to some, yeah, some very renowned
athletes, and just to ask them about their, their experiences to in
these topics.
**** - (): And somehow the interest was. Yeah. Overwhelming.
Because when I started, I started with people I know and at the end
I talked to Lael Wilcox and at the beginning I would not, would not
have thought that I will be talking to someone like Lael Wilcox
about her racing experiences and be able to incorporate them into,
into my book.
**** - (): So yeah, it was a process and it almost took four years
from the beginning of. When I started to write down the first
sentences until I finished the book in German, it's almost four
years. So it was probably a way longer than normal, normally an
author would take to write one book.
[00:18:11] - (): Craig Dalton: Got it. Super interesting.
**** - (): Obviously there's a lot of information about. Cycling
training out there when you talk about maybe road racing or
traditional mountain bike racing. And as we've mentioned, there
hasn't been a lot documented about training for ultra cycling and
bike packing. If there were a couple areas that you would highlight
that are dramatically different from shorter races to longer
races.
[00:18:35] - (): Stefan Barth: Yeah, we talked about one,
which is like sleep, something that is completely unimportant for
normal sports, or which is only important when you talk about
recovery, but there's No need to cut sleep during doing races. And
of course, nutrition is a big, big part because nutrition becomes
even more important, the longer the races, also the whole part
efficiency and how you sit on your bike, how it gets way more
important because.
**** - (): You develop more problems with your neck, with your
shoulders, with your lower back than if you are just riding your
bike for five or six hours. And also the training aspect is
different. So it's not just about pushing your lactate threshold or
your, your, or getting more power to the pedal because at the end,
it's not necessarily the efflet.
**** - (): With the most power or the best power to weight ratio
that wins the races, but it's the one that has the best overall
ability to ride the bike as long as possible. And with as few
breaks as possible. So many questions are coming to mind on this.
Oh, okay. So let's go give it a shot
[00:19:53] - (): Craig Dalton: to some of those a little bit
one by one.
**** - (): So we talked a little bit about sleep. Obviously. Most
of us, we try to get eight hours of sleep a night when we're at
home, try to do rides well rested every time in order to compete in
some of these events. And in order to even maybe just do them, you
need to be able to sleep outside. You need to be able to sleep on
the go when you, maybe it's easiest if we talk about a four day
long event, for example, what is a sleep strategy that Maybe
someone newer to the sport could, could realize and approach.
[00:20:30] - (): Stefan Barth: Yeah. Yeah. At the beginning,
I would always recommend to have like a longer sleeping break every
night, something like maybe three hours or three hours sleeping
time, which will translate into something like four or four and a
half hours stopping time. And the important thing is to sleep
cycles, you know, because your, your body or your mind, your brain
goes through different sleep stages during the course of the
night.
**** - (): And I think a lot of people already heard this that
it's. It's easier to wake up if your total sleeping time can be
divided by 90 minutes. And this reflects those sleep cycles. It's
easier to, or you have one, you have four, four sleep stages. And
one of them is where you are sleeping really, really deep.
**** - (): And if you wake up or if you get woken by your alarm
clock or friends, whatever during this really deep sleep this will
be very confusing and you can actually, if, if it is combined with
the physical exhaustion it can happen that you wake up and you're
feeling disoriented and you don't really know where am I, am I
racing or what's going on?
**** - (): So it's good to know your own. sleep cycles because they
differ from this 90 minutes a little bit and they get like they get
each time you go through them during the night they get a little
bit longer so if you are trying to sleep three hours around three
hours the for most people it's better to sleep for example three
hours and 10 minutes which reduces already the risk of waking up
from this deep sleep stage.
**** - (): And then I would always recommend to have routines if
you're going for four or five day ride. It's way easier to go to
bed around the same time every evening and to wake up around the
same time every morning. It's a little bit like in your everyday
life. If you're working on shifts and Yeah, you have to, uh, some
day you are waking up at 6am, sometimes you have to wake up at
10am, then it gets really, really hard to to be fit in the
morning.
**** - (): And during the event, it's the same, it's way easier to
have a routine and also transfer this routine as or as much as
possible to the whole cycling event. For example, also, it's a good
idea to have your lunch break around the same time each, each day
which makes life way easier, especially for
[00:23:06] - (): Craig Dalton: beginners.
**** - (): I imagine so. One of the things I wanted to highlight,
which I thought was interesting, you mentioned, you know, if you're
intending for a three hour sleep, you probably need a four hour
window of time. And as someone with a limited amount of bike
packing experience, I can, I understand that because you need to
get off the bike, you need to cool down.
**** - (): You may need to change to get comfortable. You have to
lay out your sleep gear, and then you have to do all that in
reverse to get yourself back going. So it's interesting. To hear
you highlight that, which makes sense as you've
[00:23:38] - (): Stefan Barth: said it. Yes. And that's also
one, uh, very, very good advice. Which I learned from, from one of
my interviewees because a lot of us, we are quite organized and we
like, like it's structured.
**** - (): And so a lot of people when they do their first
bikepacking experiences and they have this sleep break. They like,
they, uh, arranged their whole equipment so that after their sleep
break, they can be moving as fast or, yeah, yeah, as fast as
possible. So like you're already putting out the gear that you're
needing after your sleep break and that oftentimes is a huge
mistake actually, because if you push your, your, your limits a
little bit, then you are already a bit sleep deprived, maybe, and
you're a physical, like, physically completely exhausted when you
have been writing for maybe 15 hours this day.
**** - (): And then you are trying to make decisions before you go
to sleep. And oftentimes you need way longer to make decisions. And
then those decisions are Not always the best ones because after you
wake up, you notice, ah, it's way colder than I expected, or I feel
way colder because just my yeah, my, my heart rate is really,
really slow after, after sleeping but I already packed my, my warm
clothes.
**** - (): at the complete, uh, yeah, the most down, downward, uh,
in my, in my bike packing bags. And so it's a good, good advice to
just grab your sleeping bag, grab your mattress or whatever you
use, your BB bag, and just close your eyes. Try to fall asleep
immediately. Don't forget to put your alarm clock, but, uh, do the
whole equipment thing and arrangements.
**** - (): You can do this all after you have slept and you will
notice that you are way more alert, you are awake and you will make
better decisions. The second
[00:25:40] - (): Craig Dalton: thing you mentioned to drill
into was nutrition. And again, many of us have done gravel events,
a hundred mile, maybe 200 mile. And we sort of know, Oh, we could
get by with.
**** - (): Sports nutrition all day long, how do, how do we need to
think about it differently if we're extending to that example, four
day event?
[00:25:58] - (): Stefan Barth: Also there's yeah, there's
some parts are for nutrition. Some parts are the same like in
normal cycling, especially. during training. So it's you have the
same amounts of carbs per hour that you try to get in during your
training rides, for example, so that you get the best physical
adaptions.
**** - (): But at the same time you need to plan ahead and think
about what can you get during a bikepacking trip, because you are
limited oftentimes to gas station food or. Uh, if you're doing
races in remote places, like the Silk Road Mountain Race or the
Atlas Mountain Race, uh, well, you have to eat what you can get
there.
**** - (): So it's always good advice to experiment a lot with
nutrition so that you know, uh, which kind of food can I take down,
which kind of food can I stomach. And what do I like probably
because yeah, if you are used to going with sports nutrition or
with sweets I don't know if you ever tried to, to survive on those
sports nutrition gills and, uh, bars for, for eight hours.
[00:27:07] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, it does add up and you
do get quite sick of them by the end of the day.
[00:27:12] - (): Stefan Barth: Yeah. And I think you get a
feeling in your mouth that's like sticky and doesn't feel, feel
very nice. So, yeah, it's good to know this in advance. And to
experiment with other foods also with solid foods that you can buy
like cheese or like sandwiches and like, uh, like rice and stuff
like this if just to try it out and to learn, can you digest
it?
**** - (): Does it taste good for you during writing? So this, this
would be like the first step to, to get a bit more experience with
different kinds of foods. And then another part is like proteins.
You need proteins on a longer ride, uh, even though you don't need
them. During short rides, because your body is not, or it's, it's
easier for your body to, to transform carbs into energy.
**** - (): But during a four day ride, you also need proteins for
your recovery periods, especially if you plan on sleeping three
hours every night, because then your body actually has the time to
recover a little bit
[00:28:19] - (): Craig Dalton: from day to day. Where, in
your opinion, where is the cutoff point for needing protein? In
your cycling nutrition in terms of hours, would you need it in a,
in a, in a 15 hour day or does it not come into play until you're
24 hours?
[00:28:34] - (): Stefan Barth: That's a difficult question
and I'm not sure if there's like scientific proof for when it gets
beneficial. But I would always already included. If you go beyond
those recommended durations for cycling, because like, if your ride
is longer than five, six hours, this is already almost a little bit
too long to build up endurance.
**** - (): And if you stretch these, these timeframes, I think it's
beneficial to add up some, some proteins as well. And definitely if
you go beyond. beyond those 15 hours. And it's individual, you will
probably notice it. For example, when I eat too, or when I limit
myself to two carbs during a right, at some point, I will get a
headache, I need some fats or some protein.
**** - (): Otherwise, my body tells me, okay, this is this is just
too restricted to carbohydrates. So if you notice something like
this. it can be the solution to eat something with fats and
proteins. And then there's also, especially with proteins, a huge
difference between male and female athletes, because there's, yeah,
like males are way more or it's It's, they are way more dependent
on carbohydrates, on carbs during, during activity.
**** - (): And female athletes, they are more dependent on carbs
after the activity for recovery purposes. So female athletes, they
also need a little bit more protein already during their
[00:30:14] - (): Craig Dalton: rides. And then on to the next
subject of positioning, interesting that you highlight that as a
key area of consideration. Can you talk through sort of some of the
differences one might want to consider in their position as they go
longer and longer in
[00:30:29] - (): Stefan Barth: duration?
**** - (): Yes, because the longer the duration gets, the more
efficient you need to be. Because if you can save only 10 Watts or
every day for a writing time of maybe 16 hours each day you really
save a lot and you really gain a lot of speed. And at the same
time, you reduce your energy expenditure and energy expenditure is
like one of the.
**** - (): Key limiters in ultra cycling because it's simply it's,
it's really, really difficult to get in enough energy for what you
are burning. And so if you can. reach the same speed with less
energy expenditure, this already is a huge, huge benefit. And so
it's a good thing to have an aggressive position on your bike,
actually in ultra cycling and not being too focused on comfort,
because this is something many beginners Doing because bike fitters
also are promoting this.
**** - (): If you are going for longer rides, try to get your
position on the bike, more comfortable. And my approach is a little
bit different. Because I think you can you can have an aggressive
position on your bike, which is at the same time, comfortable if
you are putting the energy or the. Uh, time into your own
flexibility, mobility and strength training, because most of the
time the limiter and not the bike.
**** - (): And so this is what I call efficiency in the book. Like
the, the position on your bike is, is detrimental for your
efficiency and you can gain a lot of efficiency by optimizing your.
Own your own, uh, flexibility, mobility, and strength.
[00:32:22] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. I know you, you go into
sort of great technical detail on how to improve your strength and
flexibility and mobility.
**** - (): And I would agree that those are critical elements for
any cyclist, whether you're trying to get a more aggressive
position or not, I can only speak to my own limitations, which are
definitely hindered by the lack of mobility. And I spend a lot of
energy these days, trying to increase my mobility to.
**** - (): Have that all day long comfort because I, I don't
currently have that right now in my Cycling. You know, as I go
longer and longer, eventually my lower back's gonna start to hurt
and it becomes quite a limiting factor in my own personal case.
[00:33:01] - (): Stefan Barth: Yeah, and I think cycling is
like a limiting sports or a limiting type of sports because we
have, we don't have a lot of different movements.
**** - (): We only have one type of movement because the, the bike
completely determines how your body moves. And so the body is
limited to, to there's no rotational movement. There's no sideways
movement. There's nothing more dimensional. This is only happening
in one in one plane. And that triggers a lot of adaptations in our
body that are not that good.
**** - (): And in combination with a lot of jobs where we are
sitting like eight hours in front of a desk. And then we go home
and then we sit two hours on the roller or on the bike and actually
we are only sitting. So there is a reason why cyclists chose a
sports where you are sitting because we don't like to move too
much.
**** - (): So
[00:34:00] - (): Craig Dalton: is there any, is there any
sort of silver bullet in terms of Mobility exercises that are your
favorite go tos.
[00:34:08] - (): Stefan Barth: Yes, definitely. Because like
the, the disadvantage of the bike giving you or limiting your, your
mobility and your, your range of motion during, during riding is
also kind of an advantage, at least from my coaching perspective,
because you can be pretty sure that almost every cyclist has the
same problems.
**** - (): Because we all have exactly the same movement. If you
compare this to other sports, like, like football or ice hockey or
something like this, like there's a lot of potential. injuries and
sources of injuries and because every athlete is moving in a
different different way but cyclists they are all moving in the
same way so we are having the same trouble and one of those
troubles is that we are losing the flexibility in our posterior
chain so like the the pedal stroke is highly dependent on your
quads So this is where the power comes from.
**** - (): So you get really, really strong, strong quads and your
body, uh, needs to compensate this because the quads, they are,
they are pulling at your, at your hips and at your pelvis. So you
need the same amount of force at the back of, of your body at the
posterior chain. And since we don't have strong backs of the legs,
because this is just pulling up the pedal again, and this is like
the recovery phase of the pedal stroke what your body does is it
tightens the hamstrings.
**** - (): Because tight is like the compromise you, if you, if you
don't have, muscles, you get tight muscles just to have like this
counterbalance to the very strong quads. So it's always the first
part of a mobility flexibility training for cyclists is always.
Gaining more flexibility in the, in the hamstrings, in the backs of
the legs and afterwards strengthening these body parts that you
have a counterbalance to, to the quads.
**** - (): Interesting.
[00:36:15] - (): Craig Dalton: That's helpful. The final area
you touched on, and I'm going to add an additional component to it.
You, you talking about training and you were talking about how
simple power to weight ratio, which may be the sort of the
predominant metric in road cycling, Is not necessarily going to
make or break your success as a ultra endurance cyclist.
**** - (): So if you could talk a little bit about that, and then I
would add on just a question around mindset.
[00:36:45] - (): Stefan Barth: Yes. So, I think a long
distance cycling, it's more important to, to increase the
capability to cycle at, or just a little bit below your threshold.
So if you, if you started with. Maybe you can ride four hours at 50
percent of your threshold, then it would be a very, very good or a
huge benefit. If you increase this, this, uh, capability to 60 or
65 percent of your threshold and your threshold can actually stay
the same the whole season.
**** - (): It does not necessarily need to, to go up all the time,
but it's, it's very important that you, that you can sustain, uh,
huge amounts of time. Near your threshold or that you that you can
gain. Yeah, that you can push up those, those percentages. So this
is what I tried to with my coaches most of the time in training to,
to increase their ability to, to get to those 60 or 70 percent in
a, in a 24 hour race.
[00:37:50] - (): Craig Dalton: And what kind of, uh, training
efforts help to that end?
[00:37:57] - (): Stefan Barth: It's a lot of steady state
writing. So a lot of writing a little bit below your threshold. But
doing this for, for longer periods of time, for example, if you are
looking in the typical, uh, training plans generated by Strava or
by Swift, you will see a lot of, a lot of efforts, a lot of
intervals that are lasting only a couple of minutes.
**** - (): And I also, I'm a big fan of having those long intervals
of training. 20 minutes sometimes, or even 25 minutes almost at
your threshold. And that's a very good way to get better at, at
riding near your threshold. Because your body gets very, very good
at. Eliminating the lactate from your blood while pushing hard.
**** - (): So you, you reduce the, the level of lactate that is
building up in the, in the intervals.
[00:38:54] - (): Craig Dalton: Gotcha. So if you were out on
a, on a training day for one of your athletes, would it be
something like, you know, two or three 20 minute intervals at 65
percent of threshold with 10 minute break in between something like
that?
**** - (): Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yes,
[00:39:10] - (): Stefan Barth: but way more than 65 percent
of threshold. It's more like 90 percent of threshold for 20 minutes
then. Okay. So it's like, but it's a slow buildup. If you start
with this kind of training and you are going maybe with eight
minutes in each interval and do this three or four times, then you
are, this is a good start.
**** - (): And if you do this a couple of weeks. At some point this
will, it will make, it will make, uh, like you put a, put, put a
switch on and it will be, you will be able to go for 20 or 30
minute intervals. Yeah.
[00:39:43] - (): Craig Dalton: As you're thinking about for
your athletes, these longer events and selfishly, I'm thinking
about my own 200 mile or 360 kilometer aspirations this year,
obviously in a lot of the training plans you might see, you might
have a six hour training ride or an eight hour training ride.
**** - (): These events are going to last longer than that. You
know, it might be a 15 hour day for me and certainly for a 24 hour,
four day event, you're talking about thousands of kilometers. How
do you in training kind of build up to that capacity to continue on
for these distances?
[00:40:21] - (): Stefan Barth: Yeah, you need to stretch the
traditional cycling distances from time to time.
**** - (): Because I like to I or I call this challenges. Because
you you need to know how your body reacts to those long rides. They
are not very efficient in building up endurance. Like I said
earlier, there's like Five to six hours. If you are already a very
good cyclist, maybe you even benefit from a seven hour endurance
ride, but everything that is longer than that, just yeah, just you
need more recovery time afterwards, but you don't get the physical
adaptation or not more physical adaptation than from a four or five
hour ride.
**** - (): But in ultra cycling, we're also in what you are doing
on the gravel bike, you need. Sometimes a ride that lasts 10 or 12
hours, just so that you know, okay, how will I feel when I'm really
exhausted and how will I cope with nutrition? Will I be able to eat
at the end? Because I think that's something probably, you know, it
from your triathlon time eating gets difficult the longer you are,
you're active.
**** - (): So you really need to know. Okay, does the food that I
can stomach after five hours, can I still stomach it after 10
hours? And how, how does my butt hurt after 10 hours? Because this
will hurt different than after five hours. And it's good to know
how this feels and how you can cope with it. And then you can, you
can think about a strategy.
**** - (): How you will, how you will tackle this problems during
unbound. So yes, I incorporate rights that are longer than 10 hours
from time to time, but limited. Not, it's not, it's no good if you
do this every weekend.
[00:42:14] - (): Craig Dalton: A couple questions that came
up after your last comment, Stefan, around training. So I remember
from marathon training, like we'd only run 22 miles and we'd never
run that full distance thinking you'll be able to get there on race
day.
**** - (): The second thing for my ultra marathon training was we
would often do a long day on Saturday and then follow it up by a
medium day on Sunday. And my understanding of that philosophy was,
Hey, we can't beat you guys up and we can't have you running 35
mile days. Quite regularly, but we can do a 22 mile day on Saturday
and a 15 mile day on Sunday to try to kind of make the body feel
like it's done.
**** - (): This long event. Does any of that track with the type of
training that makes sense for ultra ultra cycling?
[00:43:03] - (): Stefan Barth: Yeah.
[00:43:04] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And the
final thing I want to touch on it. I mentioned it a bit earlier. It
was just Sort of mindset. And I thought about this a lot as we were
talking about sleeping and waking up from a three hour sleep,
having to get your gear ready and get going again. I could just see
in myself struggling to kind of.
**** - (): Put, put pedal in front of pedal after, you know, just
sleeping for three hours. So can you talk about the importance of
mindset and maybe if there are any tips and tricks that one can
learn to keep, keep pedaling forward?
[00:43:40] - (): Stefan Barth: Yes, definitely. Because you,
you need to find like a sweet spot between recovery. And exhaustion
during training. So, I also like to do those back to back sessions.
For example, also with those long interval sessions we spoke of
earlier, that I am doing, like, maybe on Friday, some really long
and hard intervals, followed by a long ride on Saturday, followed
by a short ride on Sunday, to build up this exhaustion over the
weekend.
**** - (): But still without compromising your recovery completely.
So yeah, that's, that's a good way for, for those working
athletes.
[00:44:27] - (): Craig Dalton: Interesting. I mean, it sounds
like with all this, you know, preparation and doing the work
leading up to your event is key. It's probably a trite thing to
say, but I think that work for ultra cycling clearly is a lot
longer than it is for shorter events.
**** - (): Because I do think you need to prepare yourself mentally
for All the intricacies around your sleep system and getting up and
preparing the different types of nutritional needs, as you've,
you've outlined and the, just a different mindset you need to go
going into these events.
[00:45:01] - (): Stefan Barth: Yes, there's, there's a couple
of, of little hacks that I, I like to include or that I included in
the book.
**** - (): Because when it comes to mindset. I have a little bit a
different opinion than a lot of people out there, I think, because
from my point of view, the mindset is a little bit overestimated
when it comes to ultra cycling or some ultra adventures, whatever
you call it. Because in the general public, it always comes down
too much to the mindset.
**** - (): And from my point of view, your base or your Your
fundamentals are always a good physical condition and that's what
you really need to finish those events. And of course you can
finish an ultra cycling event or a bikepacking event just by
mindset and by iron willpower. But this will mean that you will do
sacrifices and maybe even sacrifice your health in.
**** - (): in some situations. And I don't like that too much about
this sports. And I don't like that in the general public people
focus so much on this. So from my point of view, it's always more
important to build up your physical capacity. And then mindset is
important, of course, because like you said, you go out there and
you will.
**** - (): Have uncomfortable situations but then it's more, uh,
willpower what you need. You need to like, you need small life
hacks that will, that will keep you going. And I like to, to dig a
little bit into how our brain works in these parts, because our
brain is like still the same brain that we had thousands of years
ago.
**** - (): And it's divided into parts that are. focused on
emotional fee or on emotions, on feelings. And you have parts in
your brain that are focused on the rational thinking. There was a
couple of tricks to better get those rational thinking parts in
your brain working. And this will help you a lot in ultra cycling
events because yeah, you will trigger a lot of those, those those
feelings that are very ancient in, in humans and your brain will
correspond.
**** - (): With reactions that are also very ancient and those are
oftentimes not the best, the best, uh, reactions. So it's important
to, to keep rational and to keep your thinking going. So one life
hack, for example, is very, very easy. And that's the, the stop
button. You can visualize a stop button. Uh, once you notice that
your thoughts are dysfunctional and this stop button or the sign
like on the road sides on the highways, I'm not sure how they are
looking in the US, but here in Europe, it's like a big red sign
where in white there's written stop on it and just by visualizing
this sign, which is a very, very easy picture to visualize.
**** - (): You can, you can stop those emotional parts in your
brain from taking over completely. And you gain a few seconds. And
this is oftentimes enough to start rational thinking. And once you
start rational thinking, you will notice that you, you are way
better, you are better able to keep your willpower because you keep
yourself in control.
**** - (): Yeah. And it's, it's a difference between motivation and
willpower. So like motivation is the thing that, uh, gets you going
in the preparation and which is probably the, the reason why you
signed up for the event and which is the reason why you are willing
to put in all those training hours and then during the event
itself, you need to Willpower, that's the thing that will bring you
to the finish line.
[00:49:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, a hundred percent. I
think Stefan, that's a good place to end it. I appreciate the time
this evening calling in from Germany. Appreciate you taking the
time and effort to document everything in this very thorough book
on ultra cycling and bike packing. I think you did a great service
to that community and the world.
**** - (): We'll certainly put links to how to find the US version
of the book in the show notes of this podcast.
[00:49:25] - (): Stefan Barth: Yeah, that's great. Thanks for
your invitation, Craig. Cheers.
[00:49:30] - (): Craig Dalton: That's going to do it for this
week's edition of the gravel ride podcast. Big, thanks to Stefan
for joining the show. That's going to do it for this week's edition
of the gravel ride podcast. Big, thanks to Stefan for joining the
show. It's so fascinating for me to think about these ultra cycling
events and the differences it would require in order to be
successful there.
**** - (): If you're interested and able to support the show.
Ratings and reviews are hugely appreciated. Or if you want to
contribute financially, please visit buy me a coffee.com/the gravel
ride. Until next time here's to finding some dirt under your
wheels.